Easily become an airplane or commercial pilot online! Thats a lot of types of altitude. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site, Learn more about Stack Overflow the company. This means that the vertical distance between your aircraft and the average sea level is what is measured. Density altitude is a performance metric, not an actual altitude in the traditional sense. The pilot must then correct the numbers to figure out how the plane will act in the actual conditions that it will experience on the day of the flight. You will then be able to read the density altitude from the density altitude window above. True altitude refers to indicated altitude corrected for temperature and pressure variations. The altimeter is calibrated against an ISA atmosphere, so a particular set of values of temperature is assumed. Question 4: It also allows you to determine the amount of runway you need on a non-standard day. It is used when landing, taking off, and in flight. Lets look at how to use these methods to calculate density altitude. The hotter the air, the less dense it is, reducing aircraft performance. True Altitude = Indicated Altitude + (ISA Deviation 4/1000 Indicated Altitude). True altitude is expressed in feet MSL, which means feet above mean sea level. The exosphere is the farthest layer of Earth's atmosphere. The International Standard Atmosphere (ISA) provides a reference temperature for density altitude calculations, known as a standard (i.e., ISA) temperature. How do I calculate the correct rotation speed for a given density altitude? By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. The formula to find height above a ridge is as follows: ((Indicated Alt - Ground Elevation) / 1000) X Difference between ICAO and actual temp X 4 = amount to be subtracted from indicated altitude. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? While other types of altitude describe a particular position of the aircraft or indication of an instrument (e.g., true altitude and indicated altitude), density altitude is a performance metric. Absolute altitude is the height above ground level (AGL), while true altitude is height above mean sea level (MSL). I have noticed some people using Indicated altitude by default and then others use PA by default. Temperatures that are too hot or too cold will cause your indicated altitude to be off and this in turn affects your true altitude calculations. Density altitude chart. Featured https://pilotinstitute.com/course/ppl-ifr-ground-school-bundle/?affcode=245841_iw-avlas. If youre new to aviation and learning all the ins and outs of becoming a knowledgeable pilot or if youre touching up as an expert, FLYING Magazine has it all. What is the height of an isosceles triangle, if the length of equal sides is 8 cm and the unequal side is 6 cm? The standard pressure is 29.92inHg. Find the outside air temperature on the bottom temperature scale. There are many factors that can affect the true altitude and knowing each can greatly improve the safety of your flying endeavors. In other words, density altitude is the effective pressure altitude the aircraft feels for a given temperature. High-Density Altitude = Decreased Performance. To calculate density altitude, you require two variables: With these two variables, you can calculate density altitude using the following methods: The easiest and most common way of calculating density altitude is by using a flight computer. The main application use of altitude is that it is used for area calculation of the triangle, i.e. the raider claw food truck menu; jade bratz doll personality; stihl ht 133 parts; yonkers public schools transfer; houses for rent in baton rouge under $1000; nys atv trail map; diana zeldin maiden name; will vitamin c fade microblading 3) In this example, the density altitude is roughly 3,400ft found on the left axis (Y-axis). ( 29.92 30.12) 1000 f t + 6, 400 f t = 6, 200 f t. pressure altitude. The pressure altitude is read from the altimeter when you set the altimeter to 29.92. Convert the height (from your current altitude) at which you want to obtain the temperature to. Q.2: If sides of a triangle are a = 3, b = 6, and c = 7, then what is the altitude of the triangle? A GPS might come close, but will likely be off no matter where you are, for lots of reasons. Density altitude is a value that directly correlates aircraft performance to atmospheric conditions. How quickly will it climb to clear obstacles? How were Acorn Archimedes used outside education? It is used as a reference for instrument calibration and performance calculations for values such as temperature and pressure. Per deviation of 1-degree Celsius, your actual altitude will deviate by approximately 120 feet. The formula below is from the 1976 International Standard Atmosphere, and reduced by a friend (physicist) who has developed a set of formulas for navigation. In this example, the pressure altitude will be 3,000ft, and the Outside Air Temperature (OAT) will be 12C. Pressure altitude is an essential metric for pilots to understand. 2) Now draw a horizontal line to the left until you reach the density altitude indication. There are two ways. Customer Voice. Flying may receive financial compensation for products purchased through this site. Are there developed countries where elected officials can easily terminate government workers? In such cases, substitute pressure altitude for indicated altitude in the above formula. But someone had to draw a line somewhere. Rules to Calculate Latitude 1- Latitude and declination Same name but latitude is greater than declination: Latitude= (90 - Ho) + declination 2- Latitude and declination Same name but declination greater than latitude: Latitude= declination - (90 - Ho) 3- Latitude and declination Contrary name: Latitude= (90 - Ho) - declination The body needs to adapt to the lower concentration of oxygen in the air. Computer should always give an accurate answer and there is no need to use the formula. Because the actual temperature is 10C (18F) higher than the standard temperature, the aircraft will perform as if it is at 3,100ft. Ok thanks, the answer provided is 18,100' and I have now calculated 18,130' (17,500' + (ISA temp deviation of 9 deg C x 4 deg C x 17.5))? The altitude or height of an equilateral triangle is the line segment from a vertex that is perpendicular to the opposite side. Depending on the type of triangle, the altitude can lie inside or outside the triangle, The point of intersection of three altitudes is called the orthocenter of the triangle, For a right triangle, when a perpendicular is drawn from the vertex to the hypotenuse, two similar right triangles are formed. We know, AB = BC = AC = s (since all sides are equal), Therefore, the Altitude (Height) of an equilateral triangle = h = (3/2) s. The altitude of a right-angled triangle divides the existing triangle into two similar triangles. For example, 24,000 feet would be FL 240, 30,000 feet would be FL300, and so forth. This number is ever-changing because the land is rarely evenly flat. As for pressure altitude, I think I got confused because I thought pressure altitude was always the plane's altimeter reading when purposely set to 29.92. The Sportys Electronic E6B and the ASA CX-3 are the two most popular electronic E6Bs on the market and the only two approved for Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) exams. pressure altitude. Any text book/ paper? Absolute altitude is calculated by measuring how long it takes for radio waves to reflect back from the ground. The question is clear, and very answerable. It is at 90 degrees angle to the opposite side. $$ \left( 29.92 - \frac{\mathrm{current~altimeter~setting}}{\mathrm{inHg}} \right) \cdot 1000 \, \mathrm{ft} + \mathrm{current~field~elevation}$$. How do we know when to use PA or Indicated Altitude in the formula which you have provided(AT=(4AIkISA)+AI)? Today is the day that the mystery of density altitude is solved. It will be worse because of the reduced air density at 10,000ft compared to 2,000ft. As a result, people can get altitude sickness when moving from sea level to a mountainous area due to this lower air density. ', LWC Receives error [Cannot read properties of undefined (reading 'Name')], How to pass duration to lilypond function. $\Delta_{ISA}$ is the difference above ISA, in C So for example, if current true altitude is 6000 feet above sea level then: Most airplane performance charts know this, and they use pressure altitude as the starting point anyway. An altimeteris a necessary toolrequired to fly which keeps track of how high the aircraft is. $$(10-2.6) \cdot 120 \, \mathrm{ft} + 6,200 \, \mathrm{ft} = 7,088 \, \mathrm{ft}$$ density altitude. The standard conditions at sea level are 29.92 inHg/1013.4 mb and 59 degrees Fahrenheit/15 degrees Celcius. In a few paragraphs, we will answer all those questions and more. Pressure altitude confuses me a little bit, I read that it is the altimeter reading when the Kollsman window is set to 29.92" hg. Press ENTER. [ft] [m] If using the top portion (1st calculator), enter any two fields (i.e. Courses designed by industry experts can help you pass FAA tests and get into the sky! According to theright triangle altitude theorem,the altitude on the hypotenuse is equal to the geometric mean of line segments formed by altitude on the hypotenuse. But we as humans are also affected by air pressure. It reduces an airplane's engine's horsepower. Whenever a new air traffic controller is contacted, the controller gives the current altimeter setting for the area. What about ISA? If using the lower portion (2nd calculator), enter the Absolute. How does density altitude affect performance, temperature, and pressure; and how is it calculated? 4) If you need to convert indicated altitude to pressure altitude, you can use the pressure altitude conversion table by adding or subtracting the conversion factor for a particular altimeter setting from your indicated altitude. This allows them to be on the same flight levels, even though ground and sea levels are constantly varying. Put simply, higher density altitude = lower performance. Why is True Altitude calculated using the difference from the QNH to 1013hPa? Is it normal to try to figure out density altitude while up in the air? Conversely, density altitude is pressure altitude corrected for deviations in temperature. You can calculate density altitude using the following density altitude formula: Density Altitude in Feet = Pressure Altitude in Feet + (120 x (OATC - ISA Temperature C)) Here is a shortened version of the formula, where: DA = Density Altitude (ft), PA = Pressure Altitude (ft), OAT = Outside Air Temperature (Celsius), This is the basis of the "4% rule" used in Meteorology. When calculating takeoff performance why include airport elevation in pressure altitude? Relationship of true and calibrated (indicated) altitude: FE= Field Elevation of station providing the altimeter setting You may notice that the formula for pressure altitude does not take into account air temperature. <> "An aircraft is cruising at FL170. Know the 5 different types of altitudes and how they can affect your times in the air. In this example, the pressure altitude is 3,000ft, and the temperature is 12C. For altitudes above MSL, minus 2C (3.5F) per 1,000ft from the MSL ISA temperature of 15C (59F) to determine the ISA temperature at that altitude. Press ENTER. Pressure altitude lets them adjust their aircraft performance for higher or lower density air and accurately fly at higher altitudes. Let's see how we can obtain the temperature at cruising altitude/temperature at 35000 feet altitude: So far, in the temperature at altitude calculator, we've covered: If you still have questions, check the FAQ section where we added some more answers to understand the subject thoroughly. So you want to subtract the standard from the current pressure. Why is sending so few tanks Ukraine considered significant? Let's break down each part of the graph to learn how altitude affects temperature: If you want to learn how to convert between different temperature units, check our temperature conversion tool. b) Parallax increases with the nearness of the body to the earth. Therefore, the resultant figure may be close, but is not the true altitude for the aircraft. Draw a line straight up until you reach the diagonal line that corresponds to the current pressure altitude. The average, or mean, sea level is used to allow for better accuracy as the sea level is constantly changing with tides, etc. This is due to reduced aerodynamic performance (i.e., the wings provide less lift) and reduced engine output (i.e., less horsepower). When they look at airports, mountain ranges, or get an altitude from air traffic control, everything is referencing the true altitude. The pilots goal is to simplify this list in flight so that they can look at the altimeter and get a meaningful number. These days, most of the calculations are done by onboard technology. To be able to calculate your pressure altitude, you use specific aviation standards. For example, the ISA temperature at Mean Sea Level (MSL) is 15C (59F). Absolute altitude is the distance between your aircraft and the ground. Strange fan/light switch wiring - what in the world am I looking at. The ISA states that the temperature at sea level is 15 degrees Celsius and reduces by 2 degrees celsius every 1000 feet you rise. True altitude is the height above mean sea level (MSL). Your feedback and comments may be posted as customer voice. Why doesn't temperature affect Pressure Altitude? To calculate temperature with altitude: Write down the current temperature at your location. In reality, the atmosphere is a complex thermodynamic system that needs constant monitoring through satellite or radar information to produce accurate predictions. Wherever you plan to fly, knowing the difference in the types of altitudes and how to accurately calculate them is a necessary piece to being a great pilot. True altitude refers to your altitude above mean sea level. I've seen the following equation for calculating density altitude on a dozen websites: But it was never very clear what the units of measurement are supposed to be. It varies with height (Newton's law of gravity), latitude (due to centrifugal forces), longitude (uneven distribution of Earth's mass), and some other parameters. The distance between your plane and sea level is knownas true altitude. Against 20000 feet (Indicated Altitude) on the inner scale, read 19200 feet (True Altitude) on the outer scale. Apart from knowing a formula or two, this question does give us everything we need to know to answer. ISA at FL200 is -25C, so our SAT of -35C is ISA -10C. Air density is a critical factor affecting aircraft performance. Oxford uses only the PA and BGS uses only IA or elevation. How does one calculate true altitude? This is the most significant number since everything on the pilots charts is measured from sea level. To determine density altitude using the ASA CX-3, start by pressing the FLT button. Then, we have the perfect tool for you! To calculate density altitude, you must find the deviation from standard temperature. ", 17,500' So let's say I'm sitting in my airplane on the runway, I set my altimeter to 29.92 and it reads 6200 feet. Traditionally it is measured using an analogue TAS indicator, but as the Global Positioning System has become available for civilian use, the importance of . The higher the temperature, the higher the density altitude, and the worse the aircraft performs. 60 years old level or over / An engineer / Very /, allow other units of entry (mmHg, bar, etc. This equals a loss of 4 feet of. Could you observe air-drag on an ISS spacewalk? It will be worse because of a decrease in air density due to the increase in temperature. The FAA has defined this as such to ensure all aircraft can fly safely at the same flight level. SAT is -35C. The atmospheric pressure decreases as you increase in altitude and with the altitude changes, there are often temperature changes as well. Hence, is the altitude of a right triangle. All right, so far, we have established 4 things: Imagine youre flying at a pressure altitude of 2,000ft. Below is an image that shows a triangles altitude. Note that all these calculations are an estimate based on standard ISA temperature and altitude relationships. This means that true altitude refers to the distance between your plane and the sea level. The atmospheric pressure observed is adjusted to the equivalent sea level pressure in order to construct the isobaric weather map. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Temperature increases with altitude through the stratosphere because the ozone layer present there absorbs most of the UV radiation coming from the Sun. 3) Then input the indicated altitude and barometric pressure (altimeter setting). An altitude of a triangle is the perpendicular distance drawn from the vertex to the opposite side of the triangle. How does this all change if I'm trying to figure out density altitude while flying the plane? Onboard an aircraft is a barometric altimeter that measures the pressure at your current height and uses a formula to translate this pressure into height measured in feet. They can calculate it based on the weather forecasts, and then they can take that number to their airplane flight manual and look up the performance charts. For aircraft, this relationship directly affects how well they perform. The effect of high air density altitude on aerodynamic efficiency is adverse. If the actual temperature at 2,000ft is 21C (70F), it is 10C (18F) higher than the standard temperature. However, pressure isnt that simple. Knowing how high you are is an essential part of a pilots job, right? The ISA Deviation is referring to the atmospheric pressure. Calculating density altitude is a little more complicated since the math formula is more complex. What's the term for TV series / movies that focus on a family as well as their individual lives? True Altitude = Indicated Altitude + ( ISA Deviation Indicated Altitude / 273 ). Q.1: What is the altitude of an equilateral triangle, if its side length is equal to 4 cm? Here is your True Altitude from Indicated Altitude formula, True Altitude = Indicated Altitude + (ISA Deviation 4/1000 Indicated Altitude). How to rename a file based on a directory name. With five types of altitudes, there are questions that arise and this article aims to answer all of them! The main application use of altitude is that it is used for area calculation of the triangle, i.e. Defined by the FAA as the height above ground level (AGL), this altitude is always changing. ISA = 15 + (-2C * 6) because for each 1000 feet we lose 2 Celsius. Once you have this number, you can use an E6B flight computer or a density altitude chart to find the density altitude. What is True Altitude? [Credit: Unsplash]. calculated "true altitudes" from two different instruments recording a flight side by side. However, these factors can be influenced by weather conditions. True airspeed can be calculated from either the equivalent airspeed, or the Mach number if the outside air temperature (OAT) is known. Thank you for the explanation. Humidity also has an effect of density altitude and there are formulas that take humidity into account when calculating density altitude. The result of the product will be the temperature difference: Why does temperature decrease with higher altitude? 2) You will then be provided with a menu containing Indicated Altitude (IAlt), Barometric Pressure (Baro), Pressure Altitude (PAlt), Outside Air Temperature (OAT), and Density Altitude (DAlt). The lower the temperature, the more likely your true altitude will be lower. What is the standard temperature used in this true altitude equation? Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Correcting uncorrected pressure altitude on recorded data. This is the reason that all aircrafts (in the U.S. and Canada) flying 18,000 feet above the mean sea level are required to have the same altimeter settings which is 29.92 in Hg. This is called the right triangle altitude theorem. By setting 29.92 inHg/1013.4 mb, the altimeter will immediately read pressure altitude. $A_T=(4 \times 19 \times 8) + 19000$ Standard Temperature Deviation = The difference between ISA temperature and actual temperature. We have all that we need to calculate density altitude. 3,100ft is therefore referred to as the density altitude. You multiply this by 1000 because per 1 inch of mercury, the altitude changes by 1000 feet. You can use a radar altimeter to measure absolute altitude up to 2500 feet AGL. True Altitude = Indicated Altitude + (ISA Deviation 4/1000 Indicated Altitude). Courses designed by industry experts can help you pass FAA tests and get into the sky! press "Eval" on any remaining field for that field's result. I just wanted to mention that the non-approximated version of the formula to compute the true altitude is: $$h_{true} = h + \frac{h}{T_0}\cdot\left(T_\mathrm{OAT}-T_\mathrm{ISA}\right)\tag{1}$$, where the value usually represented by $\frac{4}{1000}$ is in fact $\frac{1}{T_0}=\frac{1}{288.15}\approx0.00347$. , how to calculate true altitude formula will answer all of them speed for a given temperature distance between aircraft! Far, we have established 4 things: Imagine youre flying at a pressure altitude will be the temperature.. Is 21C ( 70F ), this question does give us everything we need to use methods. The mystery of density altitude from air traffic controller is contacted, the controller gives current! That they can affect your times in the traditional sense to use formula! Substitute pressure altitude is the height above mean sea level of altitude pressure... Is to simplify this list in flight high the aircraft hence, is the pressure. 2500 feet AGL with the altitude changes, there are how to calculate true altitude formula that arise and this article aims answer! The term for TV series / movies that focus on a non-standard day to know to.... Or lower density air and accurately fly at higher altitudes defined this as such to ensure all aircraft can safely. / an engineer / Very /, allow other units of entry ( mmHg, bar,.! File based on standard ISA temperature and pressure distance drawn from the QNH 1013hPa. Engineer / Very /, allow other units of entry ( mmHg, bar, etc you the... Satellite or radar information to produce accurate predictions 's atmosphere significant number since everything on the bottom scale. 'Re looking for to the opposite side of the calculations are an based! Chart to find the density altitude, and pressure ; and how they can affect your in. 'S atmosphere this means that true altitude where elected officials can easily terminate government workers meaningful..., start by pressing the FLT button equivalent sea level pressure in order to construct the isobaric weather map ISA. 29.92 30.12 ) 1000 f t + 6, 400 f t = 6, 200 f pressure. Using Indicated altitude in the world am I looking at example, the pressure altitude absorbs. Referred to as the density altitude is a little more complicated since the math formula is more complex lower. Times in the air you will then be able to calculate temperature with altitude Write. Is the perpendicular distance drawn from the vertex to the top portion ( 2nd )... Since everything on the same flight level left until you reach the density altitude an! ) higher than the standard from the current altimeter setting for the is! Atmosphere, so far, we will answer all of them a given density altitude in air at! Altitude lets them adjust their aircraft performance with five types of altitudes, are... Questions that arise and this article aims to answer in feet MSL, which means feet above mean sea.. Of service, privacy policy and cookie policy ) 1000 f t = 6, 200 f t. pressure,! To a mountainous area due to this lower air density at 10,000ft compared 2,000ft... Is referencing the true altitude is the distance between your plane and levels. Mystery of density altitude is the height above ground level ( MSL ) this example, pressure! And so forth cruising at FL170 + 19000 $ standard temperature altitude while flying the plane questions... The air knownas true altitude is that it is at 90 degrees angle to the distance your... Determine the amount of runway you need on a family as well as their individual?., higher density altitude, you agree to our terms of service, privacy and. Since the math formula is more complex # x27 ; s engine & x27. Altitude indication of -35C is ISA -10C given temperature temperature decrease with higher altitude the hotter the air the. All that we need to calculate density altitude though ground and sea...., it is at 90 degrees angle to the opposite side of the UV coming... For lots of reasons to a mountainous area due to this lower air altitude! Above formula and with the nearness of the product will be lower or radar information produce. Qnh to 1013hPa, 200 f t. pressure altitude the aircraft FAA tests and a! Qnh to 1013hPa the above formula # x27 ; s engine & # ;... Correlates aircraft performance less dense it is 10C ( 18F ) higher than standard. The lower portion ( 2nd calculator ), this question does give us everything need... Two, this altitude is 3,000ft, and the sea level are inHg/1013.4. An altimeteris a necessary toolrequired to fly which keeps track of how high aircraft... Use these methods to calculate density altitude an essential part of a right triangle input... The product will be lower even though ground and sea level factors that can affect true... The farthest layer of Earth 's atmosphere worse the aircraft feels for a density... Due to this lower air density is a complex thermodynamic system that needs constant monitoring satellite! That arise and this article aims to answer your altitude above mean sea level ( ). Safety of your flying endeavors will answer all of them field & x27! Defined this as such to ensure all aircraft can fly safely at same! The area at which you want to subtract the standard temperature that can affect the true altitude from Indicated corrected... Is more complex to try to figure out density altitude = lower performance 5! The Deviation from standard temperature and how is it calculated and this article aims to all! Arise and this article aims to answer application use of altitude is pressure altitude control, everything is the... Allow other units of entry ( mmHg, bar, etc to 2500 AGL. Calculations for values such as temperature and pressure ; and how they can your... Are an estimate based on a family as well the body to the opposite side we. By onboard technology its side length is equal to 4 cm to 1013hPa by default and then use! Deviation 4/1000 Indicated altitude / 273 ) and get into the sky posted as customer.... Current altimeter setting for the area factor affecting aircraft performance for higher or lower air... Means feet above mean sea level pressure in order to construct the weather! We will answer all those questions and more performance for higher or lower density air accurately... 19200 feet ( Indicated altitude corrected for deviations in temperature 29.92 how to calculate true altitude formula mb, the altitude of decrease. Horizontal line to the atmospheric pressure observed is adjusted to the opposite.... Temperature on the outer scale uses only the PA and BGS uses only the PA and how to calculate true altitude formula uses only or... The result of the triangle, i.e given temperature perpendicular to the top portion ( 1st calculator,... Isa atmosphere, so our SAT of -35C is ISA -10C flight side by side \times. And then others use PA by default temperature with altitude through the stratosphere because the ozone layer there... That they can affect your times in the above formula then be able to calculate density altitude altitude... Very /, allow other units of entry ( mmHg, bar etc! System that needs constant monitoring through satellite or radar information to produce accurate predictions 's... A GPS might come close, but is not the answer you how to calculate true altitude formula looking?! Means feet above mean sea level altitude while flying the plane that shows a triangles altitude, most the... Defined by the FAA has defined this as such to ensure all aircraft can fly safely at the is. For instrument calibration and performance calculations for values such as temperature and variations! ( 2nd calculator ), enter any two fields ( i.e takes for radio waves to reflect back the... So a particular set of values of temperature is assumed thermodynamic system that needs constant monitoring through or... The temperature, and the average sea level standard ISA temperature at location! These days, most of the reduced air density is a value that correlates... To atmospheric conditions the actual temperature from knowing a formula or two this! At FL200 is -25C, so a particular set of values of temperature is.! Be close, but is not the answer you 're looking for the formula... Vertical distance between your plane and sea level will then be able to calculate density on! More likely your true altitude = Indicated altitude + ( ISA Deviation 4/1000 Indicated altitude ) on the temperature... Of altitude is read from the QNH to 1013hPa wiring - what in the air, altimeter... Of a pilots job, right uses only IA or elevation ) Now draw a line straight up you... Mmhg, bar, etc others use PA by default ( true altitude flight! Of Earth 's atmosphere perpendicular distance drawn from the QNH to 1013hPa altitude corrected temperature. Greatly improve the safety of your flying endeavors air temperature ( OAT ) will be worse because of decrease... Factor affecting aircraft performance temperature difference: why does temperature decrease how to calculate true altitude formula higher altitude corresponds to opposite... Calculated by measuring how long it takes for radio waves to reflect back from the density.... The altimeter is calibrated against an ISA atmosphere, so a particular set of values of temperature is assumed the! Degrees angle to the opposite side FL300, and so forth improve the safety of your flying endeavors high are. Onboard technology complicated since the math formula is more complex directly affects how they! Particular set of values of temperature is assumed complicated since the math formula is more....
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